Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
Welcome back to the TT Wine Explorer podcast on Tanya Tomaszewska. It's been a while since I've dropped in and said hello. We last left off in May last year when I shared my discussion with Angela Hansen, the founder of Mocktails, which is Vancouver's premier retailer of non alcoholic beverages.
Since then, Angela has been kicking serious goals with her business.
Mocktails is opening a new location on Granville island here in Vancouver shortly and there's lots of other stuff in the works now. During the last 12 months, I spent a lot of time traveling around Canada's beautiful west coast and in the interior of our province.
I did make a foray south of the border in late 2025 in November to go back to Las Vegas, and this episode in part is about that expedition.
Now for longtime listeners, you'll recall that I'm a Vegas convert, largely due to my friend Graham McLennan. Graham is a serious Vegas geek and he's the host of his own podcast called Chef Demoni, which is about food, chefs and sometimes lawyers and travel, and a lot more. I highly recommend that podcast series to you as Graham is not visiting the United States these days. He was keen to hear about my most recent trip to Las Vegas.
And instead of going to Vegas this past year, Graham went to Basque country in Spain, staying in a little town near San Sebastian. And so Graham and I decided to swap notes of our travels, talk about food, wine, and the vibes of each of these places that we'd been to recently.
This episode that follows is a discussion which I had with Graham about all of these things on episode 78 of his Chef Timony podcast. That episode is called Absence Makes the Heart Go to Spain.
For me, travel is about learning new things, adventure, surprise, fun, and very importantly, supporting families and small business. Wherever you are traveling. This is the engine of our economies and our communities, whether it's visiting in our hometown, province, country or across the borders.
So I'll leave my introduction for this episode at that. I hope you enjoy my discussion with Graham McLennan today. Let's fly.
[00:02:26] Speaker B: It has to be One or the Other does absence make the heart grow fonder?
Or do the cynics have it right? Out of sight, out of.
[00:02:41] Speaker A: Talking to chefs and sometimes lawyers, but always to people who love food. You're listening to the Chef de Money podcast. Here's your host, Graham McLennan.
[00:02:56] Speaker B: On second thought, I'm not sure it does have to be one or the other. If you've been following along the Chef Demoni story in recent months, you'll know that I'm taking a break from visiting my favorite city in the world to visit Las Vegas, Nevada. If that's news, and if you're curious as to why that is, check out episode 75 of the show. It's called Seeking New City.
That episode has my detailed conversation from the citycast Las Vegas podcast where I was interviewed by my friend David Figler. In any case, the good and the exciting news is that another good friend friend of mine, Tanya Tomaszewska, was just in Las Vegas and she stopped by the show to share her thoughts on on lots of fantastic Vegas food and drink, particularly in the up and coming and and really already fantastic arts district. I cannot tell you how jealous I am that Tanya got to try my beloved Esther's Kitchen and and she got to go to Chef James Tree's newest spot, Bridge Barbohm, before I have ever visited.
Now Tanya, being a banking lawyer turned wine explorer, of course, shares some thoughts on sips that she enjoyed and wine lists that caught her eye in Las Vegas. In our discussion about esters, we dive into just what a wine list can tell you about a restaurant. Whether you choose to drink wine or not. I think it's a really useful thing to look at. A wine list can tell you quite quickly what a restaurant cares about. If it's showy bottles and sky high prices. Chances are, I think at least, that they care more about margin and social media than I think a restaurant should. But if the list is focused and if it includes some reasonably priced options that also happen to be delicious and that also happen to complement that restaurant's specific food, then I think you're in for a very good night.
When we wrapped up the Las Vegas talk, Tanya and I took off to northern Spain to talk through my recent trip there. I was in the Basque region, as you'll hear, a great little town, beautiful, delightful, small little coastal town called Zaraouts in the northeast of the country, quite near the border with France. And in fact, I make a mistake in my talk with Tonia saying that I didn't get across the border into Spain when I meant to say I didn't get across the border into France. Oh, and in talking about a great restaurant in Zeraouts called Telesforo, I talked about us enjoying the prefix menus for lunch, which we absolutely did. But I totally forgot about one lunch, surprisingly, where we did order a la carte and we did that so I could try a fish that I have been excited to try for many, many years. I will give you Details on that fish fish and why I've been so excited for so long about it. I'll do that at the end of the show today. I would go back to Europe just to try this fish again at the end today as well. I will also give you a quick note on season six generally. But right now, let's get to today's chat. Here is my friend, Tonya Tomaszewska.
Hey, T. Nice to see you again. Thanks for showing up on my computer screen once more.
[00:06:19] Speaker A: It's great to be back. I think it's been a while now since we chatted, but I'm looking to diving in and sharing some tales of our recent travels.
[00:06:26] Speaker B: Absolutely. Well, we have to start with yours because I have been on a hiatus from Vegas and it is making me very, very sad. But you were just there and that delights me particularly because I've got a. I've had a bit of a preview of some of the great food that you had and that's what I want to focus on. Of course. But first, tell me where because I just want to hear more about Las Vegas. Where were you staying and what was sort of the overall vibe of the trip?
[00:06:56] Speaker A: Well, I first, I have to thank you for, you know, I'm an aspiring Vegas geek now, I think. And so after my first trip about 18 months ago, it tantalized me to go back. And so this time I went back and stayed in, I guess what we can call is Old Vegas or downtown Vegas. Vegas.
And I really enjoyed it. Stayed at a hotel called Circa, which is big and it's got the casinos and it's got the kind of flash and dash that you might expect from Vegas or something you'd see in the Strip. But I felt it was in a totally different world off Strip, totally different direction when you get out of the airport.
And for those who've been to Vegas, you know, you're kind of on the steps of the Fremont street experience, so. So it's a very different vibe. In some ways. I feel like I'm not even in Las Vegas at all. Well, what many people might think of it in terms of the Strip. So for me, the Strip is kind of like an adult Disneyland in some way. This kind of make believe.
It's got a lot stuff going on. And downtown Vegas or old Vegas to me is kind of like more of a carnivalesque, I might say that's a very polite word scene going on. But for me it's a bit more real.
Having said that, you still, I feel sometimes a bit of an alien there, but it's a bit more real.
There aren't as many of the franchise kind of operations. I think there's still lots of independent kind of cafes and restaurants, but you're still in the mix of Vegas. So back to Circa, you know, it's a brand new hotel, it's really big. It's known for its sports bar and its sports book. I'm not a sports sport person, but it's that kind of when in Rome, the verisimilitude, like willing suspension of disbelief. And I just threw myself in there. So they've got this massive sports bar with like auditorium seating, stadium swim, which is this huge pool area with massive screens. You know, Sunday, Sunday afternoon football capacity, 4,000 people. Have a margarita. So you're there. So that's where I stayed. But then when you walk out, you can walk out into another world. And that for me, this, the world on this trip was walking back into the arts district where I didn't get into as much in the last visit. So that's where I was staying for this time.
[00:09:14] Speaker B: Circa. It's, you know, I have never stayed there, but I have played there and I've spent a fair bit of time there and really enjoyed it. It's funny, I think if anybody looked at Circa with its, as you described, the stadium swim and that crazy massive sports book and people going bananas during the football games or hockey games or whatever they're watching and then looked at either of us, they would probably go. Not sure that that's a Tanya or Graham kind of place to stay. But isn't it great that in Vegas you can just dive into these experiences? You wouldn't otherwise.
[00:09:47] Speaker A: I think so. And the one thing I will appreciate, I appreciated about Circa is the place it was at like 21 plus. So it's an adult resort.
So definitely about gaming and the like.
One of the things that I found different from the Strip experience I had last year was that the on site food outlet. So we're gonna chat food there was great variety and I found the pricing was much more affordable and accessible.
[00:10:17] Speaker B: Yes. So.
[00:10:18] Speaker A: And great food. So an on site kind of cafe, grab and go, where a coffee and a muffin could still be around $10 and not $25, for example. On the Strip. Yes, there was a. I can't remember the name of it now, but there's a great delicatessen on site, you might remember it, which is like meant to be reminiscent of one on the Jersey shore, Philadelphia. And like there's matzah soup and Chicken noodle soup and like Reuben sandwiches and they're reasonably priced. And then there's like a, you know, I can't remember maybe a Thai and a burger place. But the on site outlets I found were really great quality. I didn't use them all, but I noticed I was looking at the menus and the pricing was much more affordable and accessible. So, you know, another reason I think for people that are gravitating back to downtown is, you know, in light of the skyrocketing prices in Las Vegas, it can just be a little bit more kind of down to earth there. That's my experience anyways and I really appreciated that.
[00:11:17] Speaker B: I couldn't agree more. And I can picture that exact. I've forgotten the name of the deli, but I can picture the coffee shop. It's called Jackpots and it's on the top floor. Right. It's on the, on the second floor of the casino. And, and yeah, you're right where you just want a coffee. You don't want to wait half an hour in a line and you don't want to pay $12 for your latte. No, I fully agree. Well, let's step out of Circa and away a little bit from Fremont into the Arts district.
Let's stick with coffee because I know you checked out a couple of places that I love. Yeah.
So tell me your experiences. The ones that I have in my notes from when we were texting are Bungalow and Vesta.
[00:11:56] Speaker A: Yeah. So it was nice to get up in the morning and walk about 15 minutes down Main street from Circa into the arts district and to find, thanks to your recommendations, some, I'll call them indie coffee shops. Right. So no, not franchised. Or maybe they might have a brother or sister cousin cafe somewhere else in Nevada or California.
I really appreciated that. So Bungalow I loved, I don't remember the street name that it was on, but it's pretty large and I loved Bungalow because it had, you know, coffee however way you liked it. They have pour overs, that's. I don't really, I'm not really a pour over person but I think I had a nice flat white that I quite like. But I really like their food options. They had eggs but they had things like med bowls, so I had one of those for breakfast. Really healthy options.
Everything you want in a cafe. Nice big, bright open space, some people there on their laptops. But really not really, not like a cafe where people are just going to work.
People were kind of using it like old fashioned cafe talk.
And so I really and the coffee was good, as I recall. So I really liked Bungalow. And I think since you sent me there, I've sent someone else there.
So Bungalow is a cool place to kind of just go and sit there for a couple of hours. It was busy, so I had to wait a while for my food, but I really didn't mind, so I enjoyed my coffee. Another spot, I think I needed another java hit later on that morning.
So I went, is it Vesta?
And I really liked Vesta. I actually just got my coffee to go and I sat outside in a bench. So I didn't really take on the inside experience, but it seemed really well patronized. The coffee was great. And again, it had this vibe of an indie coffee house, not part of a chain.
The one thing that I liked about going to both of those cafes is that in the arts district, or also Midtown, as they're calling the area, there's a lot of development. So just sitting at these cafes and looking around, tons of residential towers going up.
And when I'm in the cafes, you know, I think there are some tourists like me, but I would say a lot of what appear to be locals, and you can see all these resi buildings going up. And I can't help but think, you know, when we go back in five or 10 or 15 years from now, that that is really going to be the focal point of Las Vegas for many people. I didn't even feel like I was in Las Vegas like, I felt like I was in Portland or Seattle or Vancouver. I could have been in Melbourne, honestly, in a cafe there. So I really enjoyed hanging out in those cafes because I kind of felt I was in another place.
[00:14:38] Speaker B: That is so good to hear. And I. I absolutely agree with you. The Arts district is its own thing, and I think so. Everybody knows the Strip, of course. Most people, I'm gonna say, know downtown Old Vegas, but that spot in between is so great. And that's news to me, that there is that much residential development going on, which is good to hear, I think. I'm sure there are a variety of views, but. But to see more life in that area, I think is fantastic. And it. It has been, I think, a really organic growth in that neighborhood. Like, it started.
[00:15:12] Speaker A: It really felt that way. And what I also like about it, it's. There's a bit. It's a bit gritty. It's, like I said, real. I'm using that word a lot. I don't quite. I'm still. My brain is trying to understand Vegas and maybe the whole Point is, don't understand it. Just be in it.
[00:15:26] Speaker B: Yeah. Yes.
[00:15:26] Speaker A: And what I loved also about going to those cafes is you walk through the back alleys where there's street art and graffiti and public art, and there are lots of vintage and collectible stores, like, huge footprints of all sorts of stuff. I almost got. I went into a couple. It was too much for me. But something that I'd say is more like what commercial drive used to be in Vancouver or certain parts of San Francisco. I'm not saying they look like it geographically, but in terms of the vibe. So I really think there's something for everyone there in that part of town.
[00:15:56] Speaker B: Great place to spend time, for. Sure. Like, I try to send everybody who asks me about Vegas, I try to send them to the arts district, not least because of. We've got to bring this back quickly to food.
Let's start with Esther's. My friend Chef James Trees and the big new esters that I'm delighted that I've seen twice. I think, what a spot. So what did you have? What did you think?
[00:16:21] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. Well, I'm so glad I made it there this time. So I'd heard about Esther's, obviously, from you and others. They do brunch and lunch and dinner. I did the drinks and dinner option. One of the nights, Esther's is, you know, Italian inspired.
And what I loved about it is, well, a number of things. But one is upstairs. There's this little cocktail lounge.
So I didn't actually have a reservation, so went and kind of waited for a table and went up to this little cocktail lounge. I don't know, maybe 20 people can fit in there. There's, like, chairs.
I had a paper plane. My traveling companion had a Negroni.
Again, I felt like somewhere totally out, somewhere totally different. I could have been in many other cities or towns, and it felt like this calm oasis with a beautiful kind of civilized cocktail and. But not fancy or precious. Just perfect. And the prices were great. You know, I think they were maybe $15 for the cocktail.
Not cheap, but, oh, my goodness, like, they. Somewhere else, it could have been 35 or 40. Right.
So loved the cocktail lounge. Then went downstairs and dinner. Okay, so my highlights from the dinner, because I know you're waiting to hear what I had. Wagyu beef carpaccio.
Wow. Mouth watering.
Mouth watering. Amazing. I don't eat a lot of carpaccio. I like wagyu beef. It was so good. And it had capers on top and arugula and a little bit of shaved Maybe pecorino, like if you go have that carpaccio, if you eat meat, then this zucca pasta. So I can't, I don't know, I don't know how to describe the shape of the noodles. Fennel sausage, tomatoes, pecorino, just perfect handmade there.
For veggies, I had the cauliflower alla Romana and then the butcher beans. Since you don't see butcher beans often in maybe I don't see them often in Vancouver. So I was excited about that. So those were the standouts. But I have to say that that wagyu was really, the carpaccio was really great and the sausage, I mean I liked everything but. But looking back at my photo stream, that's what stood out.
[00:18:24] Speaker B: That's what stood. That's so interesting because as we were chatting a bit or texting while you were in Las Vegas, chef James Trees has just opened a full on steakhouse right at Rio. And so apart from knowing pasta, this guy knows meat as well.
[00:18:42] Speaker A: Well, I really, and I'm not a huge meat eater, but I was just opening, I was just gonna try anything that looked that just caught my fancy.
So. And that was just a few things and then I will just note that the wine list was great and I had a sucko Blosser Pinot Noir from Oregon and it was really well priced and a beautiful wine. And so what I also appreciated was the accessibility of the wine list for people who are maybe first time tasters, experienced kind of wine geeks and also from the pricing. So wherever I'm eating or dining, even if I'm not having wine, I will look at the wine list to get a sense of what they're, what the wine directors are and the restaurants and the chefs are trying to do in terms of the approach to their customer and their consumer. So I really appreciated the wine list as well.
[00:19:28] Speaker B: You know, that's really interesting and I haven't sipped on wine for a little while. But tell me if I'm right about this.
What I heard from your description of it there is exactly what I did like in a wine list, which is it's geared to people to actually enjoy wine, which is to say there's no, you know, whatever multi ten of thousands of dollars bottles of wine on there just because whatever you hit the slot jackpot or something and there's no particular pressure to order at a certain price point. And there are probably, I'm guessing, some, you know, broadly known wines that are well priced, but seems to me a wine list that actually wants to Encourage people to enjoy wine for enjoying wine and not for looking a certain way. Is that fair?
[00:20:13] Speaker A: Absolutely. And I appreciate that. And wine and food are meant to go together. That's what wine's for. It's meant to be around a table, clinking glasses with someone, whether you're, you know, drinking it, you might be smelling it. It's meant to be had with food. And certainly there are places where, you know, they've got deep cellars and, and expensive bottles but you know, what percentage of the population is that going to be accessible for? And I think, you know, in the food environment now it's hard enough for hospitality owners and operators to keep people coming because of lots of the world pressures swirling around all of us now.
And you know, it's, it's if it's part of the experience and, and also, you know, the noalk or the zero proof parts. Every single place I go to now has at least a few sheets or options of other libations that don't have alcohol and it's quite conscious and I appreciate it.
So Esther's hit the mark on that for me. So I really appreciated that one.
[00:21:16] Speaker B: Thought I was going to save this for offline, but I'll just put it onto the episode. I'm not sure if I had mentioned before but there's a somme at Guy Savoie which is in Caesars in Vegas and it's one of the arguably two tippety top restaurants in town and certainly very expensive. I've never been there. I've been to there what they used to call the bubble bar which was their lounge area where you could get tiny bites of the food. It was fantastic.
But the full on menu is full on and very expensive and they have to your point, they've got a deep cellar and they've got some crazy priced wines there. But this fellow, I've forgotten his name but his Instagram handle is Vegaswine and he does these great GoPro videos of him serving wine. I guess they get consent from the guests and it shows him prepping the wine, taking the cork out in the back of house and then bringing the wine out and serving it Anyway, all to say, while he does serve in my price book some crazy priced wines, he's also super down to earth about it and is just excited about the wine. So anybody interested in wine in Vegas just check that out.
[00:22:18] Speaker A: Well, I will now. I don't know the handle. I'm going to get on it.
[00:22:21] Speaker B: There you go. Okay, let's stick with Chef James and a place that I have not been. And this is really irking me about not going to Las Vegas right now. His new. No longer brand new, but certainly new to me. French restaurant in the Arts District, Bar Bohem. And I know from her text you had a good experience there, but I need the details.
[00:22:40] Speaker A: Oh, wow. I'm so glad that you steered me that way. I really like dusters, but Barbohm really just kicked all the goals for me, to use some footy metaphors. I loved it. I loved everything about it. From the moment I walked in from the outside, I was like, I'm not sure. It looked kind of just, you know, kind of plain building outside. You shouldn't judge a book by its cover, obviously. I like the minimalist on the outside. I walked in and the fit out is kind of. I don't know how to. I don't know how to describe it. Kind of a brasserie. It's French inspired, so Barbo M. But brasserie, but. And done in a very nice kind of mod. A modern west coast style as well, but definitely brasserie inspired. Just beautiful bar area, beautiful banquettes with that kind of lush, velvet seating, but not fussy and not precious and not stifling. Just. I walked in and I felt great, and the lighting is nice. So all these things I think about in terms of I want to have a nice experience, and my environment is really important to me and lighting and touch and, you know, the materials. So the space is great. And it was warm enough to sit outside. There's an outdoor patio area with the heat lamps. And so that was great because I felt like I still had a little bit of summer, even though it was, I don't know, November.
And so the feel is great. Okay. The food, I will just dive right into some of my favorite dishes that I had.
The roulette of smoked trout. Just. I wish I could just show you a picture right now. Just so beautiful. So smoked trout done, I think, with horseradish and cream, but not. Not too creamy, not too rich, just beautifully balanced with roe in it and then roe on top. And the presentation, this beautiful little dish with their house baked baguette smoked trout. You need to have it.
[00:24:31] Speaker B: Yeah. And I was just thinking the roe with that pop of salinity through the.
[00:24:36] Speaker A: Through the fat, the whole, I would say.
I mean, I liked everything, but that, for me, was a standout. I would have that every single time I go.
The other thing, I think I bet had four or five different things. The other thing I really loved was the frise au l' Ardent. So frise salad, very beautiful greens with lardons, but they were, you know, is that sliced as that kind of pork? Right. So. But it was very thinly done and salted and just a touch. And croutons made from the sourdough bread made at Esther's Kitchen, which I also should have mentioned the sourdough bread. So apparently they make the sourdough at Esther's and then they make the croutons, and they're beautifully kind of oiled, and they bring them over and they use them in bohem.
[00:25:18] Speaker B: And.
[00:25:19] Speaker A: And then there is a poached egg on top and a sherry vinaigrette. Like, just amazing.
[00:25:24] Speaker B: You could have it as a meal.
[00:25:25] Speaker A: It was. It was. I had scallops crudo, which was on the half shell. Kind of looked like a coquille St. Jacques, which. Which I liked. I would. It was very well done. I would say the roulette really grabbed me, though. But the scallops were great. And I like the menu because there's veg, there's seafood, there's meat. There's something for everyone there.
The steak tartare.
Wow.
[00:25:44] Speaker B: Back to the meats.
[00:25:46] Speaker A: Back to the meats. And I'm not a big meat eater, but it was just beautifully balanced. Just mouthwatering, but just perfect. And it had some frise on top and a tiny little. I was looking back at my pictures. I. It could have been like a little egg.
There was some accent on top. And I can't remember by that point. I was just kind of surrendering to just the moment, not focusing on all the details, I'll be honest.
So those. I think that's what I had. So the roulette, the smoked trout, the scallops crudo, the frise lardon, and the steak tartare.
And again, the wine list there was great. And I had it with a couple of glasses of Cote Duron white blend with the Viognier forward. And it was just great. It was beautifully balanced. The service was great.
Very attentive, but not too much. So I would highly recommend it to anybody. Definitely worth the visit, no matter where you are in Las Vegas. I would say go to Barbo M.
[00:26:39] Speaker B: Go to Barbo M. What are the grapes in a Cote d' Rhone white? I think, because is a Cote d' Rhone red and gsm. Is that right?
[00:26:47] Speaker A: Yes, that's right. Okay. So I guess it depends where.
You know where. But it could be a Viognier, a Marsin and a Roussanne, but it will depend. So the one that I had, I think was mainly a Viognier with maybe a bit of Roussanne. There are lots of other white varieties, like for example, in the region, you've heard of Chateauneuf du Pape. There are Chateauneuf du Pape whites which can have up to eight different grapes. But the main ones will be Marsin, Roussin, Filonier.
[00:27:13] Speaker B: Very cool. Okay, let's pick one or two other highlights from the arts district. This is all arts district, isn't it?
[00:27:20] Speaker A: I know, I know. Well, I really feel and I have so much more to go to because the problem is, is that there wasn't enough time and there's all these dive bars. But I wasn't really going out late at night because by the time I was tired, like, you know, like it's get getting going when I'm like, oh my gosh, I've been on my feet all day. So I the dive bars, but I would say Lettie's. I went back to Lettie's on this trip. I went every day. Lettie's Cochina, the Mexican place. It is so good. The pork belly tacos, mouth watering. I think I had some mushroom, mushroom tacos. The ceviche is unbelievable. The guacamole, it's all in the tortilla too, right? Just everything is perfect.
So friendly. There's an outdoor area, so I sat on little tables just watching people go by on the street. There's an indoor area. Letty's. I went to every day. I will go every day again.
[00:28:09] Speaker B: Every day again. And you know what? This again, causing me pain. I have never been to Letys.
[00:28:14] Speaker A: Oh, my goodness.
[00:28:15] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that was a recommendation from my friend Karen from the 360 Vegas podcast. I think that's how that came to me and then to you. Okay, it is.
[00:28:25] Speaker A: And I'd say the last thing, I mean there's lots of more. But the other thing I really enjoyed, and this will be for the beer lovers in the in the listening group is the Abel Baker Brewery. Abel Baker Brew Pub. And so it's at the end of Main Street. So if you're leaving downtown Las Vegas and you're heading towards the Strat, it's at the last stop on Main street or vice versa. If you're walking from the Strat, heading downtown, it's your first stop.
Really good beer. I mean, I'm not a huge beer drinker. I appreciate it and I'm quite particular about the beer. I like, it just was great. I had an amazing pale ale. It was just well done. They've got so much on tap. Great vibe. There are lots of other breweries. I didn't have time to check them out, but I really recommend that one and it's lots of space and it's just fun and. Yeah, so that. That's the brew pub.
[00:29:11] Speaker B: So are you like me daydreaming about your next Vegas trip? Like, will you. Are you starting to think a little bit?
[00:29:18] Speaker A: Yeah, a little bit. Well, it kind of gave me a taste of what I would go back to. The one thing I didn't get to on this trip is I didn't get out of the last time I went, I got to River Rock, Red Rock. Sorry. And this time I meant to go out to. Oh, my goodness, I'm having a blank valley. Sorry I didn't get out. So I think my next trip I would go back and stay and then spend more time checking out the dive bars and in the arts district. And I think I would try and get out of town again to go and do some hiking or biking. And it's like an hour outside. You can rent a car and get out, out of the city and into the. Into nature. And there's so much to see in terms of beautiful rock formations and desert. And I just didn't get there this time, so. Yes. So I'm dreaming of that because I love desert landscapes and I want to go back to Oscars. I didn't get to Oscars this time, so I'd have to go back. So. Yeah, I am. I don't know when I'll go. Maybe in another year or so. We'll see if things. I mean, there are lots of other places to see far, you know, near and far. But.
[00:30:15] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:30:15] Speaker A: So I've got in my head a few, you know, a few things of where I'd go to next.
[00:30:20] Speaker B: Yeah. Near and far. We were in Spain recently and I was. I have to admit that I was Googling before we left about the nearest Vegas, like, casino experience, but. And apparently there is a great one in Portugal, but we weren't close enough.
[00:30:34] Speaker A: So. So where did you go? What did you decide on?
[00:30:37] Speaker B: So we ended up doing a home exchange and we went to. And the only reason we went to this town was because there was an available home exchange there. But what a find. I'm so glad we went. It was called. It is called Zeraouts and I'm sure I continue to mispronounce that notwithstanding that we were there for 12 days. So it's in the north, the northeast, and it's about 30 minutes west of San Sebastian, which is the biggest town of any, you know, note around there. And of course, San Sebastian is a super duper foodie hub and Zaraouts had its own great food scene as well.
[00:31:12] Speaker A: And that's in the Basque region, Is that right? Have you been there before? And you know, in terms of. And you know, maybe we can dive into a few little details of some of your stops. Food stops, but from altitude, you know, what's the deal with Basque food? For example, is it different than food that you find in other parts of Spain that you may have traveled to?
[00:31:34] Speaker B: It is, yeah. It's interesting. I found that was my first time to the region. I would love to go back, like to that little town. I would go back there specifically. It was so nice. But the Basque region, my take on it being a first time visitor and certainly no expert was it's, it's a very. The people there seem to be Basque first and then Spanish or French second was my kind of take on it. And the.
We didn't get across the border into France, but the food different from other places that have been in Spain, certainly. And of course Spain generally known for tapas and then in the Basque region known for pinchos, which to me, I'm still a little murky on the exact differences, but I think pinchos technically are sandwiches, little tiny sandwiches, warm and cold. And then tapas encompasses a broader selection of dishes. And we had both. So yeah, I loved it. I would love to go and spend more time, learn a bit more about the region historically and culturally. And I would love to actually, actually get across the border and into Spain and see if the vibe does feel the same there. I suspect it would have a lot of similarities to where we were, but haven't been yet.
[00:32:46] Speaker A: And you mentioned you had a homestay. So how did that look for your food experience?
Did you go to the markets and bring food home or go out or your morning coffee and breakfast? What did that look like? What did you do? I know you like your coffee ritual. So what was around for you?
[00:33:04] Speaker B: There was, it was great. So the town is about 20,000 people. It's a super duper tourist hub. In the summer it's a surfing mecca. Interestingly, the condo building that we were in has a surf school in the ground floor level of it. And we were about a two minute walk literally from the beach. And that included carrying a toddler. So it was like really close. And every morning we would see kids in their wetsuits with their surfboards running from the surf school to the beach to take their lessons. So in terms of food, we did everything.
Our. Our hosts were such wonderful people. They had left the fridge pretty nicely stocked. There was bread waiting for us, There was delicious ham, There was cheese, there were eggs. And so we got there after a very long travel day and we were able just to put together a really quick meal which was so nice and so welcome.
And then we did great little supermarkets around. We did some shopping and I cooked in the apartment quite a bit. That was just easier. It was funny on the timing front, we really wanted to go for dinner and we were trying to keep the baby up late.
Just. It didn't really work. But we were thinking he might have an easier time coming back to Vancouver in terms of jet lag. Didn't really work. But what that meant was we were never out late enough to have dinner. So all of these.
[00:34:22] Speaker A: Right, because of the siesta. Siesta tradition, right?
[00:34:25] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly right. So these fantastic restaurants would be open for lunch and they would be open till 3, 3:30? Yeah, like virtually 201. They were open till 3:30 and then they were closed until 7:30. And there was like heaven.
[00:34:39] Speaker A: Vancouver happy hour these days is, you know, people go and grab bites from 4 till 6pm so there you were probably just in this quiet zone.
[00:34:46] Speaker B: It was totally quiet zone.
[00:34:48] Speaker A: So where. So where did you get to go then? Like did you get to in the quiet zone or, you know, did you manage to get any lunches or dinners in?
[00:34:58] Speaker B: We did for sure. So to your breakfast and coffee question. There was a little several. But we settled on one little cafe around the corner from us that had terrific coffee. They had great pastries.
My son learned the word croissant and he remains a fan to this day. He would start every day possible with a croissant if he had his way. So we would do that. We would get up, we'd go have croissant and coffee and then head to the beach. We had a couple of great lunches. There's a place called. There's this gorgeous hotel and a new to me but very famous Spanish chef, Carlos Argu Nano. I'm definitely mispronouncing his name, but he had a hotel, a restaurant and a bakery right on the beach in Zeruz. And so we went there a couple of times for lunches. Early to late lunches. Pinchos, tapas, great stuff. The bakery was outstanding. I was buying bread there and bringing it back and having it in the apartment. That was terrific. And then we found Another place that our hosts had recommended called Telesforo. T E L E S F O R O. And that was a little bit of a walk away, maybe 10, 15 minutes into the, the old town. And the old town was just like straight out of central casting for European. Charming. It was, you know, narrow streets, cobblestones, lined with cafes. And we were there in October, so it was quiet compared to what I know that the peak of the tourist season must be, but there were still lots of people going out, locals and a few visitors. Super friendly people. Anyway, this Telesforo was great. They had like a set menu where you could, you could order a la carte if you wanted to. We always had the set menu. So it came with some appy, some main, and it would be like sort of a steak frite kind of thing, dessert. And then I think you could add an espresso for €1. And your lunch was either €16 or €17, depending on, on whether or not you had espresso.
[00:36:50] Speaker A: Wow. And so you're by the coast, surfing mecca. So talk me through.
In addition to steak, free seafood options, I'm assuming, I'm hoping, you know, and how, how does it differ from, you know, you and I are blessed to be living on our Pacific west coast here in Canada. So, you know, what do you, what did you try, what did you, what seafood was on offer there?
[00:37:10] Speaker B: So lots of prawns or gambas.
They may be shrimp, actually. I can never remember the technical distinction. Lots of grilling. So that seemed to be a very common cooking technique. And it was just great. Right, because they're grilled in the shell, they come out. You have to get your hands dirty, opening them up, ripping the heads off, ripping the shell off and getting to the tail meat. And then always served with bread, which was.
The bread was actually an interesting point where we found some great bread at Carlos Argoignano. He had fantastic bread in his bakery. The bread elsewhere was not the best I've ever had, but it was, it was fine. It was good. It's just not as great as I've had in France, for example, anyway, but delightful to sop up the. Sop up the juices we had. We had one calamari squid dish. This was actually we did one day trip from Zara Ouds. We took the train into San Sebastian. It was about a half hour ride, very easy. And the train gets out right in sort of the tourist downtown zone in San Sebastian. And we just walked around for a while and then went to a Pinchos Bar there. And there we had. That's where we had the squid. And it was done in black ink, like in the black ink sauce.
So it was what I would describe as one of the bigger tapas.
We had some pintxos there as well, and some, you know, the croqueta, the deep fried gooey goodness.
[00:38:35] Speaker A: I could live on comfort food.
[00:38:38] Speaker B: Yes. My son would live on croissants and I would live on croquetta.
So we did have the squid there in the ink, and it was delicious. Although, I gotta say, really punchy, like really earthy. You knew you were eating squid in ink, right.
[00:38:53] Speaker A: So is it quite rustic, would you say?
[00:38:56] Speaker B: I would, yeah, I would say it was.
Now, now, in fairness, we didn't go anywhere approaching a fine dining spot, but.
[00:39:05] Speaker A: More kind of everyday. And where we were.
Was it a mix of. You would. From what you could gather, local clientele and visitors.
[00:39:12] Speaker B: Yes, I would say that's right. We were sort of among the fewer international visitors. I'm going to say most people were speaking Spanish, but I think it is an internal tourism hub. So people go to the coast. It's beautiful. It's got a gorgeous beach. And there did seem to be quite a few people visiting from other parts of Spain. Yeah. Sort of in that tourism mode.
[00:39:34] Speaker A: Well, I remember a long time ago, first hearing about San Sebastian because of its proximity to Pamplona and the Running of the Bulls and Hemingway, I think, used to go and hang out in San Sebastian. So when you're walking around the streets, is there that vibe?
[00:39:47] Speaker B: Well, that's interesting.
I'm not sure I felt Hemingway in the streets, but I can see why.
[00:39:54] Speaker A: Why he would have gone.
[00:39:55] Speaker B: Yes. Why anyone would go. And it does have kind of a.
I mean, we were there just for a matter of hours, but it does have this great energy and this feel to it where people are. It seemed to me like a gathering point. Not just the individual places that we went, but the whole city. There did seem to be this great gathering energy. And that where we had the squid and those croquetas, that was such a reminder to me of why I love these Spanish tapas and pinchos bars where people are just jammed in there. We got a little table on the patio, which was on the street, just because we had the baby and it was easier. And I would walk into the restaurant and to the bar and you're six people deep and sort of yelling to the bartenders and how they possibly keep track of who has ordered what in terms of drinks and food and Then they bring the food to you and then you, at the end, you sort of wade your way back through this mass of people and flagged them down for the, for the bill and there it is. And it's all accurate. And away you go.
[00:41:00] Speaker A: How is it for vegetarians where you were?
[00:41:03] Speaker B: Oh, good question. I don't know because I didn't turn my mind to it specifically, but I would think very good thinking through some of the other menu items that we had.
Certainly grilled peppers was another dish that we had regularly and was delicious. I think you'd be fine. I think you'd be fine.
[00:41:22] Speaker A: And I know it may have not been something that you would have been focusing on, but in terms of the beverage culture around it, we're talking about food and wine going together and also what grows together, goes together.
So, you know, whether alcoholic or non alcoholic, you know, did you have any observations as to what people were having with their pintxos or in the evening, like non alcoholic local juices or drinks or Vermouth? Vermouth. Is there vermouth or sherry or, you know, wines or what were you seeing happening?
[00:41:49] Speaker B: I would say what we observed the most happening was, was wine consumption, for sure. And the, the lists, to the extent I looked at them, were dominated, if not exclusively Spanish. Yeah, the non elk selections were great. Inter. I just stuck with beer. I stuck with non elk beer and that was the easiest. And there were plenty of local options that were all. Yeah, that were all.
They were all great. I only had them with food. I think that's right. I didn't get any to bring back to the apartment, but all went really well with them. And. But I would say, yeah, everybody was drinking.
Not everybody, but the drink of choice was wine, certainly. And I would say more people. And maybe it was just the type of place that we were going to. More people, it seemed to me, were ordering off the chalkboard than off the wine list. So I think they had what would probably three or four. Great.
Not break the bank. House reds and whites great.
[00:42:44] Speaker A: This is a bit of a rapid fire question.
So if you could bring two or three ideas of food items that you tried or saw or ingredients there and would introduce them to one of your chef friends in Vancouver and say, hey, I think this would be a cool addition to the menu or for people here to explore, what would that be? Or do you think it's covered here? I know that's kind of a strange question, but is there something that you'd say, hey, I tried this, I saw it.
What do you think?
[00:43:16] Speaker B: I certainly wouldn't be surprising any of my friends, but I would say, honestly, the croqueta, somebody should be doing those. I'm sure somebody is, but they're hard.
[00:43:26] Speaker A: To get good ones, and they seem simple, but. Yeah.
[00:43:28] Speaker B: But, yeah, I think it's one of those things. Much of cooking, much of any skill, I think, is like this. You just have to do it a million times, and it becomes feel. And then so somebody knocking those out. I don't know of a place that's doing that in Vancouver or on the Sunshine coast, where I spend most of my time now. But I think that could be a huge.
For me, it would be a huge hit because it's just so good. And so I think it would be good for a restaurant, too, because they tend to be salty, they're crunchy, they're delicious, and they go with wine, they go with beer.
[00:43:59] Speaker A: And, you know, that could be a food truck idea, too.
[00:44:01] Speaker B: It could be a food truck idea, too. Yeah. But I think.
There we go. I think.
I think we would have to have a bigger cultural shift before some of these things would work. And maybe that's why travel is still as, you know, delightful as it is, because things work in different places. And it wouldn't be just a matter of bringing the food here. You need, you know, you need those.
[00:44:24] Speaker A: You need the place. You need the place.
[00:44:26] Speaker B: And the people six deep at the bar yelling, absolutely.
[00:44:30] Speaker A: It is that being in situ. And I think that's the same when we talk about wine or I think of different meals. You know, would Oscars be Oscars? Back to Vegas? Would Oscars be Oscars if it was somewhere else and. I don't know. I don't think so.
[00:44:43] Speaker B: No.
[00:44:45] Speaker A: It's like a wine. Often, you know, you go somewhere, travel, or you're at a winery, and you have a glass of wine or a taster, and you love it, and then you buy something, some. You bring it home, you're like, well, yeah, it's okay, but it's not, like, as good as I remembered it. But a lot of it will be the space or. Or a meal, to your point. So, you know, hence the benefits and learning from travel and experiences and getting out of our own spaces, whether that means you're driving an hour away or flying a day away and having something truly different and local in that space. And I don't think you can duplicate that. You can try and replicate it, but I don't think you can duplicate these experiences in time. One. One time. And if you're a meal and having a glass of wine. You cannot duplicate that again.
[00:45:28] Speaker B: No, no. And I think in many ways that's a great thing. Right. That just means we're going to be daydreaming about the next trip, whether it's Spain or so.
[00:45:35] Speaker A: Are you going to go back or where next?
[00:45:37] Speaker B: Yes, I think we will for sure. We're just entering this zone of what all of the parenting blogs assure me is the absolute worst time to travel with a child, which is we're getting close to 18 months and everything I read says just cool your. Cool your jets between 18 months and three years. So we're going to do some more local travel. We'll go, you know, exotic places like West Vancouver and Roberts Creek.
[00:46:04] Speaker A: Yeah, that's great.
[00:46:06] Speaker B: It'll be good. Well, Tanya, thank you so much for what? Another great discussion. We always have them and I'm delighted we've made. We were commenting before we started recording on how the days just slip away. Yeah. So I'm so glad and thank you for making time for this.
[00:46:23] Speaker A: No. And thank you for the spark of Las Vegas. I'm glad that I could share. Thank you for asking me to share my recent experiences there.
You know, you say time slips away. I just think the nice thing about travel again, whether it's near or far, is being out of your daily routine. And it gives you the opportunity, if you take that opportunity, to slow down and be present in that place. And I feel that in the times and days where things race by, that is a way to slow down and be present. And so I love the opportunity to chat with you about all these things because it takes me back to my. To my adventures.
[00:47:00] Speaker B: To your adventures.
[00:47:01] Speaker A: So thank you.
[00:47:02] Speaker B: Of course, of course. It's always. It's always such a pleasure. And, you know, one of the reasons I started this podcast on this slowing down thing was as a way. And I was thinking particularly of the lawyer side of the chef lawyer equation here. Not that chefs aren't busy, but.
But so much of the time that I think lawyers spend in the office is so stressful and people crave a bit of distraction, I think, and an opportunity to slow down. So hopefully we have given people the better part of an hour to slow down and think about food and discover some places and some bites and drinks they want to check out.
[00:47:39] Speaker A: Absolutely. And some inspiration perhaps for 2026. So wishing you all the best for the coming new year. I look forward to seeing you soon and hopefully swapping some more tales of adventures in the coming months.
[00:47:51] Speaker B: We will do it again. Thank you, Tanya.
I do miss Las Vegas. I really, really do. But that favorite city of mine to visit will have to wait for another day for a visit. I'm actually in the midst of planning another trip to Europe for the spring. We're hoping to see some more of Spain and to return to a favorite spot in Italy. More details on that when I have them. But for now, I am actually finally wrapping up season six. Not that this will be any particular change, given my publishing schedule recently, but I am going to take a more intentional break before coming back with season seven. If anything does pop up in the meantime, I will take tack on another episode to season six as necessary. Okay, that fish at Telesforo, it was monkfish, a gloriously early, almost luminescent fish. It was served simply, roasted with a tiny bit of garlic and really, really tasty. Now, the reason that I have wanted to try it for so long goes back to my early, early days as a stage at Bishop's Restaurant in Vancouver. So we're talking, talking 2008, 2009, somewhere in there.
And at that restaurant, my friend Chef Jacob Deacon Evans, he lent me an absolutely beautiful book by the French chef Michel Bra. And in that book is a wonderful recipe called Shadows and Light. For that dish, Chef Brah contrasts this early monkfish with a jet black emulsion made out of dehydrated olives. It's really gorgeous. I've made versions of it over the years, but I've always had to substitute local seafood for the monkfish. I can report that both halibut and scallops work quite well, but one of these days, I really want to try to make that dish with monkfish, or, I suppose, head to Chef Bra's restaurant. His son Sebastian is at the helm now, and it continues to look absolutely amazing. Okay, that is all for today. And that is all for season six. We have wrapped up another season here on the old Chef to Moni podcast. As always, thank you for being here. It means a lot to me that you choose to spend some time with me and with this Show. I'm Graeme McLennan, and I'll see you for season seven right here on Chef Damon.
[00:50:26] Speaker A: Sam.
It.
