Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign welcome back to the TT Wine Explorer Podcast. I'm Tanya Tomaszewska. Today's episode is about Mocktails. Not the drinks, but the place.
Mocktails Non alcoholic Liquor Store is located on Commercial Drive in Vancouver and opened just about a year ago.
Since then, Mocktails has exploded in the non elk scene and has become one of the go to places in Vancouver in the Lower mainland for those looking to explore and buy a huge range of non alcoholic libations.
My guest today is Angela Hansen, the owner and founder of Mocktails. As you'll hear during our conversation, Angela had no background in the non alk beverage scene, let alone the beverage industry more broadly when she opened Mocktails. In fact, Angela had never opened or run a bricks and mortar shop before either.
But what Angela did have was experience in bringing people together and being the glue for those who wanted to socialize and gather.
Now in the past, alcohol had often been part of that. It was when Angela started her Sober journey that she saw that there was really no one single place in our market where the sober and sober curious could go and find and buy interesting non alcoholic drinks all on offer in one location and also have a place to connect and learn about such offerings. And so Mocktails was born.
Today, Mocktails is really for everyone or anyone looking for cool non alcoholic beverages.
Whether you're in your 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s or 80s. It's a place for you whether you're sober, sober, curious, needing or wanting to cut alcohol for your own reasons, or a zebra striper like me looking to moderate or alternate alcoholic with non alcoholic drinks on any specific occasion.
For me, Mocktails truly feels like an inclusive space.
I first heard about Mocktails through social media when I was starting to have a dive into the non alcoholic beverage scene myself. I wanted to learn more about what was offer from B.C. canada and around the world.
Once I started to look into things, Mocktails was popping up everywhere on my feeds and so I stopped in the shop and I was really impressed by what I saw and what was on offer.
I started to see my own gaps in the low or no Elk market in terms of the types of drinks that I wanted to see on the shelves that I wanted to try. And so a little bit down the track, I started to work on a non alcoholic beverage project that I'm still involved in now.
Stay tuned for a further podcast episode on that.
I met Angela in person in her store with some of the samples of the prototype which we'd been working on in my project.
I asked Angela if she'd try them, let me know what she thought. She was so welcoming to the idea. She tried my sample and offered that I could come back to her store the next day and pour some samples for some of her customers to get some real time feedback. For me, this was invaluable and it was also just one example of the female forward nature of the non elk beverage space which Angela refers to in our conversation. It really is all about rising tides lifting all boats now. Today, Angela and I discuss how her store came to be, who it's for and what you can find there. Among other things, we talk about adaptogenics, examples of drinks made in Canada and beyond, which you can find on her shelves, and what customers are looking for, what they'll pay for, what catches their eye. We also talk about what it's like to start a brand new bricks and mortar business in today's climate, and what it's like to learn how to run and build a business as you go.
For me, this episode really is about creating something new. It's about creating a space where any or all of us can meet. It's truly inspiring for people like me and perhaps many of you out there who have an idea and just want to take that leap. I hope that you enjoy my chat with Angela Hansen today. Let's fly.
Hi Angela. Welcome to the TT1 Explore podcast. Thanks for joining as my guest today.
[00:04:11] Speaker B: Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here.
[00:04:15] Speaker A: So before we dive into hearing about your business mocktails, I thought we'd start a little bit about your journey and your mocktails journey and how this all started for you.
So could you share a little bit about your story in terms of what prompted you to start this business? I imagine it could be, you know, a long story, but whatever you feel you'd like to share for today to give kind of an overview of where we're going.
[00:04:40] Speaker B: Absolutely.
So basically I this all started with my own journey, my own personal journey and my own relationship with alcohol and also a lot of the females in my family. So there was a lot of questionable drinking practices in my family that led to maybe like obviously some really struggled relationships with alcohol.
So I witnessed that growing up and I experienced that myself.
So when I decided to, well, not decided because it took me many, many attempts. But this time when I did get sober and it was kind of that last straw where I knew that I was never going to drink again, I was just of like, well, what am I going to drink now?
And I just started I went and kind of went down deep, dove down this rabbit hole of these non out products and I was just so impressed and so fascinated with the concept of all of it and why this wasn't more known. Like why a lot like when I was speaking to my friends and family, like most people I spoke to, didn't realize that there was these options.
So for myself I guess it kind of started for selfish reasons where I was just, you know, it newly in sobriety and wondering what I was going to do and how I was going to partake because socializing and partying and like we were kind of the hub of all of our friends and like we were the party and we were, we were who brought everyone together and that was always result like revolved around alcohol and that's just the reality of it. So it's like bringing, being able to find these products and still be those people was, was really important to me because that's kind of who we are. Right?
When I went looking for them, they weren't readily available.
So it's like there was little pieces here and there. But there was nothing in Vancouver that was just offering this for people like myself that just wanted a place that they could go and, and not have to go to a liquor store or not have to go hunt it down at different place.
Kind of like honor the process, honor the products. And so that's where this kind of was born, where I just, I. There was a gap and it needed to be filled and my husband, because it was. We just passed our one year anniversary for mocktails and we're gonna have a big party at the end of the month and all those things. But he sent me kind of a screenshot of the message I sent to him over a year ago saying like, you know what, I think this might be a good idea.
And then here we are a year and some later and here you are.
[00:07:23] Speaker A: Just over a year and everything that you've built and we'll. And we'll get to that.
So thank you for sharing that. I think you hit so many different layers and points that I believe make mocktails and other non alcoholic beverage experience providers really important. And that is one, a place where people can go and we'll talk about that in terms of bricks and mortar and also online, but a place where people can connect because alcohol or beverages traditionally has in many parts, in addition to eating, it's a connector like you say, and also the ritual right of having, having something to what you're. You're sipping on together. You might Be sipping different things, but the ritual.
So thank you. Before we jump a bit more into the business, I recall when we first met, I believe you said you hadn't had experience in this sector before or, or a store.
Is that right? That's right. So this is all new. You just have jumped in.
[00:08:26] Speaker B: Yeah, literally, like it was just, yeah, we, like, I, I started just ordering things to my home to try them and, and not like I didn't have a business license yet. I didn't even have a name. I didn't know like really I was just like trying things for myself and seeing like, you know, because I didn't know if these were. I love the concept of it, but I didn't know the quality of the product.
[00:08:51] Speaker A: Yeah, you had to try them.
[00:08:52] Speaker B: Yeah, and once I did that, I was, yeah. So blown away and so impressed. So it really was just jump all in and kind of learn as I go and.
Yeah, I really, I had no idea.
[00:09:06] Speaker A: Well, and again, you know, your business, I, I love the story as a business example in a case study as well, about someone creating a business from an idea of something you couldn't find for yourself or you were looking for yourself and it didn't exist in your market. And so you are a great example of that. And also I think in the last couple of years a lot more products are coming on to market, but also being a conduit here to, you know, where we were maybe a little bit behind in that for different reasons, smaller market, geographically where we're located.
So, so thank you. Okay, so you jump in, you get the idea. You're like, okay, here's, here's the gap in the market. I would like to create this space for, for me, for friends, for other people who are looking for the same experience.
Okay, so in practical terms, how can you just take us a few, a few steps. You're jumping into this business idea and in a short amount of time you have grown a huge offering of products which we'll talk about and a following of customers. But in start, you know, how did you get started like in practical terms, you know, for maybe people out there who are thinking they might start their own bricks and mortar shop, you know, how did you find your shop front space? You know, I know you just mentioned you were trying your own product or trying product from other places, but you know, selecting inventory, sourcing it, you know, and then also did you open the doors and see if the people will come or did you spend a lot of time pre launch marketing it or like you said Is it just. You just went with it and it unfolds that way? Because I know lots of businesses have different paths at the beginning.
[00:10:43] Speaker B: Yeah, basically.
So what, how it all started, like I said, is I started ordering products for myself and in order to do that I just looked online for products and then through those I was able to. Then I was looking for wholesale. Like once I, I knew that these were products that I wanted to consider carrying, then I reached out wholesale and then through my first vendor I was able to get more and more connections. So. And luckily in this industry and the people that I was lucky enough to meet who now are, are somewhat of mentors to me. Females too. I noticed that there it was very female run industry as well, female forward.
And so they, I think they would kind of introduce me to each other. So I had like three main vendors to begin with and so when I opened my doors there wasn't a ton of stuff on my shelves. I mean they were full ish, but they weren't where they are like now. Where once I understood the products more, I was able to educate myself about the products and what the expectations are, what my criteria is, what my customers wanted.
Then I was able to bring in more and more products maybe outside of the vendors that I originally. Obviously I still use them and they have amazing products. But I was able to go seek out new products on my own because I was learning, I have learned so much about the products themselves. Right. Whereas before I was relying a lot on, on the, on educate. Getting my information from other people.
[00:12:15] Speaker A: Yeah. It takes a long time to taste through things.
[00:12:19] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:12:19] Speaker A: To so that you also can speak to them. So if someone comes into your shop, you know, you have that firsthand experience as well. In addition to the selection process, you.
[00:12:28] Speaker B: Have to have the expertise and my customers rely on me too because it is such a new industry and, and especially the bricks and mortar part of it. And it's like when people come through the doors, I, I want them to feel confident in me and my expertise and my knowledge. So it took a lot of like after hours just learning and researching the products and what something's supposed to taste like what? Like being the judge at the NOAA competition that I was recently, like, I had to know what, like I had to know about the products and the complexity of things in order to be there. Right. So maybe a year and a half ago I wouldn't have been able to be there because I was still just like, so, so new to it, but because I was so excited and like inspired I was able to learn quickly and I wanted to learn quickly, but as far as finding a space, that took a long time. So this concept, like all in all, is about two years in the making because it took us almost a year just for someone to believe in our. What we were doing because it was such a new thing and people didn't quite understand when we, when we approached them. They didn't. They weren't sure if they wanted this sort of business in their space because they, I guess they didn't see the potential, right, that we were lucky enough for this landlord to see.
And thank, thank God, she's lovely.
And I'm just happy that it worked out that way because it's in a location that I always wanted to be in. It's full circle for me because I did, I did struggle with addictions and stuff in my past, and that's a whole other story. But this was an area that I spent a lot of time. And so to be able to come back full circle and offer something that's good for the community is like, really meaningful to me. And I feel like it almost, if you believe in that, like, meant to be sort of thing, I do believe that it was because right before I got this basic, I was looking in like the back corner of a complex, like, where nobody would have, like, you know, like, so like, just because I wanted it to, I wanted it so badly, I was kind of willing to settle on something. Maybe it wouldn't have been as beneficial as the space we are in now.
[00:14:39] Speaker A: You put it out into the universe and it came back full circle, but not by, you know, that's from hard work and energy. And thank you for mentioning about the landlord and seeing the community there and support of your landlord, because for those of us listeners who live in Vancouver and other cities, you'll know how challenging it is right now to find space. It's really hard for bricks and mortar, mortar and landlords that can come to the party, so to speak, on arrangements for leases. So, you know, that says a lot. And your, your position on commercial, the. On the drive is great.
So. Okay, let's get back to your offerings. So you alluded to the fact when you started and you opened your doors, you didn't, you know, you had stuff on the shelves. But since then you've really had to do a lot of your own homework and learning and buying more. So. So for those who haven't been in your shop, could you just, in rough numbers, say maybe roughly when you started, how many different products you had on the shelves. And now today, how many you have, I mean when I go into your shop, it looks to me like you've got hundreds. Like you've got walls of a fascinating portfolio. So if you wouldn't mind me telling, maybe sharing a little bit about, you know, how many products roughly you have on the shelves and also a bit of a breakdown of your categories. You know, you've got, yeah. Types of different non alcoholic beverages.
[00:16:03] Speaker B: Definitely we have approximately 500 products.
And then we started out with maybe like half to like a third of that. So we've grown quite a bit.
There's also been new vendors too. So obviously I brought in stuff on my own. But then there's, I started with the three and then there's another main one. So that's my fourth vendor. He's. They have a lot of great products as well.
So yeah, roughly around 500 offerings. And then also one of my main things is my adaptogenics. So I'm very, I'm very big on the adaptogens and the functional beverages because anything that gives back to your body as well as like you're removing something kind of harmful and you're bringing back something, something wonderful.
So we have the largest selection of adaptogens in the city and stuff that nobody else carries and they can only find at mocktails.
And I, I'm really always trying to keep that part of, of our business like new, fresh and like stocked. Right. Because it's not always easy. And now with the tariffs and stuff, because a lot of my adaptogenics are coming from the states, it's making things a little bit more difficult.
So that's a whole, obviously that's, that's the, a whole thing. But I don't want to disappoint my customers either because they rely on us to have those selections. So I'm trying to find ways around it right now.
But luckily for like, luckily for all of us, we do have like some local distributors that are fantastic and they carry just phenomenal things. The spirits, the, you know, the mocktails, the, the mixers, the everything that you could think of.
[00:17:40] Speaker A: The wine, beer, non alcoholic wine, sparkling wine, non alcoholic spirits. I mean you've got it all for anyone's desired category. And thank you for mentioning the adaptogens because that is one area I've not explored as much of as compared to some of the other non alcohol beverage options. So it is intriguing and certainly there is, I think, increased demand and awareness for that.
Okay, so Angela, when you talk about adaptogens, let's Dig deeper into that. What, what do you mean? What are adaptogens?
[00:18:18] Speaker B: So basically there's adaptogens and nootropics and they're. They're natural herbs, like things like mushrooms and herbs. And they help the body kind of like adapt to stress, restore balance, like homeostasis.
So there's a cut. Like the difference between adaptogens and nootropics is nootropics are more for like cognitive function, memory, focus, that sort of thing, whereas adaptogens are more for like stress and mood. Right?
[00:18:48] Speaker A: Yeah. So if someone comes into mocktails then to your shop, then it sounds almost like an apothecary in that way when you're talking about it.
So can you give examples of a few different drinks right now that are popular in both of those categories?
[00:19:08] Speaker B: Absolutely. So some of them leading and blazing the trail are Bon Buzz, which is a really nice. It's more of like a high energy, mood elevating kind of drink, functional beverage, things like Kin euphorics.
Hio is a big one we have, we're lucky to have in Good company which is a new brand, female owned, operated and local.
So that's another one that just launched not too long ago.
So that's exciting that there's some more Canadian made brands getting involved in this because it's such an. I think it's such an important part of the non elk industry.
There's also 33 acres does an adaptogenic line. So that's a brewery out of North Vancouver.
[00:19:53] Speaker A: Oh wow, that's really interesting.
[00:19:55] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, they do soda water. So it's like very light flavored, very refreshing. But it does have like a few different functional ingredients in each of them. They do three, a line of three. And then in Good company does a lineup of four different flavors.
So yeah, there is so many. I could go on and on. There's a lot of those are like the, the ones that generally are like RTDs, ready to drinks and then there's the aperitif. So a lot of the RTDs, things like kin or, or Bon Buzz, they have their RTDs but then they also have their para tiffs that you can make your own drinks with.
So it's, it's like a stronger, more concentrated formula. So you could do whatever you like with it but still get those functional, those functional benefits.
[00:20:44] Speaker A: Yeah, that's fascinating. And so thank you for pointing out the local ones because you know, as we were chatting about earlier, you know, the focus on local and supporting local but also in light of trade, the trade landscape, you're mentioning that a number of products, you know, are US based. So it's fantastic to have more of a local portfolio to choose from, but also the functionality, you know, it's interesting because to talk about functional beverages that way, you know, in addition, or maybe as part of the ritual. So I imagine you may have people who come into your shop who, who maybe want to explore adaptogens and tropics and are not sure exactly where to go. And so, you know, in plain terms, do people who come in and say, you know, hey Angela, I'm looking, I'm feeling this way, or I'm looking to have this kind of experience or with, with a drink, is that, you know, is that what people can do in very plain terms, like smoking cannabis or drugs or whatever?
[00:21:40] Speaker B: It's like, yeah, yeah, very natural.
[00:21:42] Speaker A: What a fascinating category. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I can imagine that that is expected to have growth, you know, both, I guess, in the RTD format generally, because that's seeing explosive growth, but also more natural approaches to, you know, in combination with the ritualization of relaxation. Right. And connecting with yourself or connecting with people.
[00:22:05] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:22:05] Speaker A: Great. Well, thank you so much for explaining that in a little bit more detail.
So you have such a diversity. You know, who maybe who's your. Who is mocktails for or who did you think it was going to be for when you started it? And who are you seeing coming through your doors or buying online? You know, is it generational mix? Is it people who, you know, are there people who also drink alcohol and are zebra stiping or moderating or you know, what, what do you see? Who are your. Who are your people who.
[00:22:36] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it is literally everybody, like when I open, I guess in like, I kind of thought that a lot of my customers would be sober.
I. But what I've loved is that it's actually quite the opposite. So we have, obviously we have a very large customer base that is sober, completely sober. But so many of our customers are. What you're saying is zebra striping. They are just alternating. They're looking at changing their relationship with alcohol. Maybe they're questioning their relationship with alcohol.
A lot of older people that are just quitting drinking altogether, not because they've had any sort of issues with alcohol per se, but because it's just not working for them anymore. And as we get older, including myself, it just doesn't affect me. It wasn't it. It doesn't work well with our bodies anymore. So a lot of people are quitting altogether for those reasons. Not necessarily because they were struggling, you know, with alcoholism or anything like that.
A lot of younger people, like I have children and my, my oldest is 20 and she's never had a drink. So and that's very common in that age group. Whereas like in our, like, like we were like we were five years into our drinking career by then. Like we, our generation started young and we went hard and I'm not saying everybody, but the majority of people I speak to, that was just the way it was and it was almost expected.
So it's just a different. Definitely the younger generation just isn't even getting into it to begin with and then the rest of us are just changing or completely eliminating.
[00:24:14] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, no, definitely. And so thank you. Because that seems to reflect and be consistent with what I observe in terms of my friends and my, me and my clients. And also when I've been in your shop or other places where there are non alcoholic options mixed together. And you know, there is a lot to be said I think for the generational point too, not only in terms of the difference, perhaps focus on the types of libations or beverages that people are going to be exploring, but also like you say when you mentioned earlier, this is a female, maybe female forward part of the industry. I think also as the consumers, you know, a lot of people, I know women are saying we just, I just can't, my body just cannot metabolize alcohol like it used to. I like still having a drink and I like the ritual and I like getting together and clinking glasses.
But it, I, I experience it leadif experience it differently now. And also older generations who you know, are moderating or reducing for health and, or they're on medication or just longevity or what, whatever their, you know, purpose is.
So, so that, so that just shows you do have something for everyone, I think, you know, whether you're 20 or 80.
Yeah, absolutely.
[00:25:34] Speaker B: And there is such an older age group that is coming in which I'm just, I'm only so impressed with because I think a lot of people assume that they wouldn't be as open minded. Like my father for one, like he's 80, almost 80 and he did have that kind of like, I don't know about this, I like, you know, like what's the point? And then how fast he got on board and like once he tried the products and once he saw like what it meant and like what it was meant to me just as a daughter and how it was changing my life, he so quickly changed his tune. Right.
[00:26:10] Speaker A: Yeah. That reminds me of an, anecdote I had actually for one of my visits to your shop, because I think I remember a gentleman coming in, you know, maybe I'll call him a boomer era. And he said to me, we were just chatting, I was looking at the things on your, on your shelves, and he had, he was looking at wines and he, he said, oh, he used to, you know, he's always enjoyed wine through his life. He collects wine and he's been looking for substitutes because he wants to keep drinking wine, but he can't drink the wine with alcohol. And he walked out, like, I think he put in a case, order a case for me, walked out and that was. And then he was gone. But he had this, you know, I had met him before and that he was very passionate and he was very enthusiastic and he was very curious about it. And I do think that generation, the boomers are curious and they, they have been curious about wine and they don't want to give it the whole thing up.
[00:26:57] Speaker B: They don't want to give it up too, because it's so part of their culture and ingrained in that culture. And then we're kind of passed down to us, which it was to us as well. And that's why I think adaptogens and stuff are popular now too, because alcohol isn't a cultural thing with the younger generation so much.
They're not looking for alternatives. Whereas, like, people like, like the boomers, like you said, they're looking for something that is going to replace what they're used to, but that is good quality. Right. And then also, because when you're on medications and you're, you're aging and stuff, like, obviously alcohol is not the best option.
Right. So that's what I love, that you can, they, they can still. Everyone can enjoy what it is they're looking for. And it doesn't necessarily have to be an alternative or something trying to replica and replicate an alcohol.
[00:27:46] Speaker A: Right.
[00:27:47] Speaker B: It's just elevated, it's special.
[00:27:50] Speaker A: Absolutely. Yeah. And as something which is in. Yeah. Something which you can enjoy. And I think that goes for the Xers, you know, like me. So.
And, you know, it may be a day like right now I'm using the distinction of Alk and Noel, but I'm almost thinking as I'm speaking this, that those, maybe those categories aren't going to be. In five years from now when we're chatting, maybe we're going to be talking about this in a different way. I don't mean, I mean for those who don't wish to have any alcohol Then of course there will still be that labeling and category. But I wonder, you know, I think it's going to get a bit more nuanced and layered than this. You know, in terms of how we ritualize having a beverage together and what that beverage is doing for us, you know, connecting the world to the senses. Right. And for whatever reason, relaxation or something a little bit different.
So thank you for, for the diversity and the adaptogen conversation because I don't think I'd had that with you before. So next time I come in, I'm going to have to have a little tutorial with you perhaps and cruise the aisle, see what I can find that are new for me.
Okay, so let's switch gears a little bit. Now you mentioned, Angela, you referred to the tariff landscape and maybe we'll get to that in a moment. But in the meantime, for those looking to support local, you are a Vancouver based, British Columbia based, Canadian based business. You do carry products from all over the world.
Could you mention a few examples of some of your favorite Canadian products that you have on the shelves or that you carry on your online shop that people might be interested to hear about or what you see are popular right now with your customers?
[00:29:22] Speaker B: Absolutely. So we do have like numerous Canadian products, some even local to Vancouver.
Some of our most popular local products would be Dutchess.
Duchess is a fantastic Vancouver based company as well as Strange Fellows is another one, Edna's High Tea as well as Aloe, like Aloe is zero sugar, zero alcohol. It's such a fantastic popular product. I could go on and on. We have Glimmer, which is a new female owned operated sparkling wine.
It's. Yeah, it's really, really good.
Everyone's very impressed with it. So we do have a lot, we have a few American products but not as many as people would assume. Like we do have like a lot of kind of just worldwide products.
[00:30:17] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, because. And thanks for mentioning that. You know, when I, I've been doing a lot of my own work in the non alcoholic beverage space over the past year and a half or so and trying lots of benchmarks from a lot of places. And so when I came into your shop I really was impressed by how much you have on offer. And you know there is a lot coming from Canada locally here in British Columbia, but also, you know, Ontario and Alberta and Quebec, but also globally. You know, I just, I've tried things from Greece, I've tried things from Sweden, I've tried things from England, I've tried things from France, I've tried Things from Australia, I've tried New Zealand, you name it, almost it's covered. And that's exciting too because for me, as someone who is in the wine world, you know, I like wine, but what I really like is the travel. And what I really like is exploring an artisanal product that someone's created and got really passionate about. And so for me, walking into a place like mocktails, non alcoholic liquor store, it's. It's that I can have that experience. You can go all over the world with that, you know.
[00:31:25] Speaker B: Yes. So true.
[00:31:26] Speaker A: Even bourbon.
So, you know, I don't know what you're seeing for. You don't have a lot of, I guess, American products on the shelves that. Are you seeing consumers? I guess it might be early to tell, but are, you know, people are still kind of embracing the products or are you seeing a slowdown on. On that or. It. It's hard. It's a bit early.
[00:31:43] Speaker B: I definitely, I definitely. And one I just want to put a shout out to is the Noah brand is a Montreal based Canadian brand. And it's mostly they have come up with some of the most complex like spirits and liqueurs and different like spirit alternatives that the coffee liqueurs and amaretto and amaro like things that nobody's really touched yet. So they are, they're up. They're amazing.
[00:32:08] Speaker A: I agree. I've had their Italian. Is it a parativo that I, I really like a lot. I really enjoy that one.
[00:32:13] Speaker B: They're incredible. And then. Yeah. The HP brand and bark and bitter. Okay. Any.
[00:32:18] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, sorry. We could go on. We could just do an hour on what, what's happening in Canada.
[00:32:22] Speaker B: Yeah. List off to all the great brands here. But yeah, I definitely see a.
Yeah. A shift of people not, not being as comfortable at buying American or supporting American brands. And it doesn't necessarily mean that they're, you know, Canadian or nothing. It is, They'll. They're basically everything but.
[00:32:44] Speaker A: Right. Yeah.
[00:32:45] Speaker B: And then others who are a little bit more. Yeah, but others that are. Are a little bit more open to the idea of, of still purchasing American.
And I think, yeah, it's. I'm interested to see where this is going to end up for all of us and especially people like not just myself in a bricks and mortar representing these products, but the makers themselves, you know, and it's. Yeah, I'm hoping the best, honestly.
[00:33:15] Speaker A: Yeah. So yeah, I mean there are so many layers to this and you know, we're in the middle of it, so to speak.
And certainly in the Context of some of my other podcast discussions and speaking with producers and policymakers. You know, to your point, you know, it'll affect, you know, your business, bricks and mortar business in terms of. Well, I guess depends what consumer demand is. But also on the supply side and the makers. So everything from their inputs, you know, any ingredients that they might use to the packaging, the glass bottles, the can.
[00:33:54] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:33:55] Speaker A: Shipping. Everything.
Everything. And we are coming out of a time, you know, during the COVID era where supply chain, you know, that took a really big beating for lots of products. And so yeah, let's just hope the storm subsides soon. But you're right in terms of, I guess consumers just will need to be prepared and aware of pricing changes because of all these pressures. And it is beyond, you know, it's, it's hard enough as it is to make artisanal products, but you know, the kind of hammering on the margin. So hopefully, hopefully it subsides soon. So just.
[00:34:32] Speaker B: And I also had heard a rumor about this sidebar product.
[00:34:37] Speaker A: Oh yeah.
[00:34:40] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:34:42] Speaker A: Yes, that's my sidebar project. My sidebar product. Exactly. So yeah, someone, someone like me that's working on something to launch soon, obviously all of these things are factoring into the numbers that I'm running.
So thank you for mentioning that. And when I have closer to launch, obviously I'll be. Have to do a separate episode on that. But also come back to your shop, would love to bring it and do some sampling and see, see what your people think of it. But yes, I mean certainly even for a company before launch, thinking about all of these things. Right. If you're, especially if you're small.
[00:35:17] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:35:17] Speaker A: And you're starting from zero, literally, you know, what do you need in order to start? And you know, if you're planning out a year to five years, what does that look like for any business at any maturity? So you're a year and a half in but you know, you got to go back and look at your, your business plan. Right. So absolutely. Yeah. So, so thanks for raising that.
Just on pricing, I find the topic of pricing, there's a lot. There's a lot there and it can be quite complex. I think it's tricky.
You know what I see a lot or I hear a lot is a discussion around a question, a rhetorical question about why is it that in many cases a non alcoholic drink, let's say a non alcoholic spirit or a non alcoholic bottle of wine or sparkling, you know, you know, let's say it's more of the premium or what we'll say elevated products, you know, they're the same price or if not more than an it's alcoholic cousin for lack of better words or swap. Yeah, you know, I think a lot of that's maybe educating the consumer and I don't mean that in you know, a kind of pedagogic kind of teaching way, but in terms of the fact that even though there's no alcohol in it, there's still a lot of work and cost that go into making this. So what are you seeing on the consumer side of things? So you know, where are the sensitivities of the tensions? Are you seeing that there's sufficient interest or demand for higher priced premium non alcoholic products? You know, what are consumers really looking for? What are they willing to spend? You know, in broad terms, you know, what do you think is driving their choices? You know, so if it comes down to like a five dollar can of a non alcoholic RTD or an, or a ten dollar one or a forty dollars bottle of a, of a non alcoholic spirit, you know, what are you seeing?
[00:37:14] Speaker B: Well, I think, I think what it is, is quality is people want something. Especially because you're not, when you're buying something and you're not looking for the alcohol, you're look, you want something that's going to have complexity, you want something that's going to have like great quality and you're willing to put the money because you're wanting an elevated product. And you know that what you're getting isn't just like an, a pop or a coffee or a tea or something that you might in other like if this wasn't available, maybe those would be your only options. So I think as long as the quality is there, people are willing to spend and once they understand that it, it's actually a more expensive process to de alcoholize something than it is like then alcohol. Because I mean like alcohol is just a natural thing. It happens, it doesn't cost anything. But to take that alcohol out is a whole other process. Right.
And that's, that's just something that once they understand it's like oh yeah, that makes sense. So and if you're not looking, because I don't think it's funny because it's like you're not paying for the alcohol, right? You're paying for the experience.
So if you can have like maybe when you, if you're, you drink and you want to get the buzz and all those things, you want the alcohol and it doesn't necessarily have to be quality, you just want the buzz like, so you're trying to taste kind of the buzz where if you're, you're not looking for the alcohol, you're looking for the quality product, something that tastes great, something that makes you feel like you're having a great experience in an elevated beverage. I think you're willing to pay a bit more for that because you're looking for something else, you know, And I.
[00:38:54] Speaker A: Think that touches on a lot of trends now in terms of less is more, whether it's a non alcoholic libation, an alcoholic libation. I mean, I see it in the wine world. People aren't drinking as much wine if they're still drinking wine. They're like, you know what? I'm going to buy one really good bottle.
What I think is a good bottle for me that I like and my price point and you know, whereas they would have had more than what they were in an evening, they're gonna have like, I'm gonna have one and a half glasses with my dinner and I'm gonna enjoy this wine. I'm gonna put a, you know, put it back in the fridge and have it over the course of the week. And I'm really going to enjoy that wine. Right. I'm going to choose carefully.
[00:39:35] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:39:36] Speaker A: And I think that's cross generational too, from my observations as well.
Yeah. So thanks for mentioning that because I'm referring to wine, because I see this a lot where I sit in the beverage world and I think people are going to start. People who are still drinking alcohol, I think are going to start interchanging with different drinks and they want that quality and they want something complex and they want a story and they want something that again, your senses. It's the world of the senses. Right?
[00:40:08] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
[00:40:10] Speaker A: Yeah. So thanks for mentioning that. Okay, where to now? Okay, so we've been talking about your bricks and mortar quite a bit and you know, one of the things, before we get on to the next topic, I just want to mention to everyone out there is if you live in Vancouver, and I'll put these in the show notes, or if you're visiting Vancouver, if you live in the Lower Mainland right now, Mocktails is on Commercial Drive and Angela has, I guess it's Saturdays, you have tastings usually, usually that a producer will come in or a distributor will come in and they. People can sample. But I think people, when they drop in your shop, you usually have something kind of open. Is that, is that right?
[00:40:45] Speaker B: I always have, I always have quite a few things open.
The official in quotations yeah, is the, the weekend tastings, but yeah, generally Saturday. Could be Friday or Sunday, but generally Saturday. But we post all that on our Instagram so like our socials so you'll.
[00:41:01] Speaker A: Know like in advance and so I don't forget later on in this episode, but I will put in the show notes on that. Your Instagram is.
Can you just shout out where people find you on Instagram and website and I assume you, you have newsletters. So how do people find you? What's the best way they'll find you on commercial drive, but where else in the virtual world?
[00:41:20] Speaker B: Yeah, so 1250 Commercial Drive. And then our Instagram is Mocktails Vancouver and our website is Mocktails ca.
[00:41:30] Speaker A: Great. Okay, we'll add that in. So that is the in person connectivity part. But you also have an online platform.
So right now is that, you know, is that a large part of your business? Are you saying in general terms are you seeing more people that are kind of foot traffic and they come back or do they then buy online or can you just share a little bit about how you're seeing that and what people you think want? And also, you know, where do you ship to?
[00:41:56] Speaker B: Yeah, so we're still working on our shipping, honestly.
So that's something that is in the works, but it's happening right away.
But honestly I think people are looking to come in because it is such a new area.
So people want to try the products, they want to learn about the products.
And I think as this grows, I think the online part is going to grow with it because it's like I. It's morning to. It's hard to order something online I think, when you don't quite understand it.
But it is definite. Yeah, it's definitely something that is growing.
But yeah, people just appreciate being able to walk through the doors, have the conversation about what they're going to be buying and understanding it.
[00:42:40] Speaker A: And I think also just seeing it, you know, walking and seeing bottles and looking at it and picking it up and reading the label and the branding.
[00:42:48] Speaker B: Right. Like the non elf branding is just like beautiful. And I think it's missed like people, a lot of us miss that. And I'm one of them is like everything's so accessible to us that it is so nice to go in and it's such a beautiful space and it's, it's nice just to be there, right?
[00:43:05] Speaker A: It really is. And I will put some photos up when I put this out. But your space is nice. And I don't know how to describe it. It's like Being in someone's, you know, like a lounge room kind of.
I don't know how to describe it. It's very warm, you've got lots of shelves. It's a mix between like a, I don't know, a shop and a bar and someone's sitting room and a salon.
And it's very cozy and very welcoming and, and I think that the colors and the furnishings and the, and the materials in your space really play beautifully. And thank you for mentioning the branding of non alcoholic beverages because the labels and the colors and the styles, it, it really is. There's so much beautiful stuff that jumps off and it is important. You know, branding moves things. It has to taste good. But you know, the eye catches the label right in the name.
[00:44:00] Speaker B: It does. And it deserves like I believe, like these products deserve a space like that is just theirs and a showcase. Right. Not just kind of like mixed in between you know, some Slim Jims and a, you know, a bag of Lays or whatever. Like it needs. They, they deserve that because it is such great quality and there's been so much work put in the artistic side of things that being able to showcase them the way that we do. We're really proud to.
Yeah.
[00:44:27] Speaker A: And so thank you for mentioning that too because I think one is. Yes, I think your space is very elegant and approachable. It's all those things very classy and fun. All those things in one. And also the category of non alcoholic drinks. And I think you're right, it's still trying to find its way. You know, you can go into a grocery store and there's some non alcoholic drinks. You can go now to some wine stores and there's non local drinks. But you know, a standalone place like yours where you can go in and it has. It is the category, right? It is the space.
[00:45:01] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:45:02] Speaker A: And I think it means it less confusing because I think it's a confusing category for consumers now. Not quite sure. Well, where do I go and find the cool thing, right? Like bits here, bits there. So, so thank you for raising that point. And I think that that channel, you know, this again I think is going to evolve for the next couple of years because there is a huge growth in demand for non alcoholic drinks and this is not way this is going to continue. There are so many new products on the market.
It's going to be fascinating to see more stores.
So on that. Only because I have a little bit of background from what we first chatted. Can you just maybe share. I mean you've had exponential growth and following in product and you are in demand. I see you involved in so many events and community participation and awareness raising. So. Wow, you've done a lot in a year and a half. So can you share? Are there any next steps for mocktails or, you know, what, what, where do you, where do you. In the. Maybe shorter, longer, medium term? Like where, where would you like mocktails to go? Are you just enjoying the moment at the.
Right now?
[00:46:05] Speaker B: Honestly, we definitely bringing more awareness to the industry.
That is a big thing.
But our next step is locations. Right. So we're in the works of opening a new location within a few months. So within the, a couple years we'd like to have two or three more locations.
It's in my belief because liquor stores are. And alcohol is so available, which is great for those who don't want it. But we also want to have these products more available to people, more accessible. Right. So our, our plan is to grow and to expand to new locations just throughout the lower mainland and then into the valley. So for now, great.
[00:46:46] Speaker A: Well, people should stay tuned, follow you on Instagram, follow your newsletters and follow your events and you get involved in a lot of community events. So I look forward to popping into some of them.
So we're, you know, I've got a couple more questions and then I think, you know, we're kind of running out of time. I don't want to take too much of your time today. So taking a step back out from altitude for those again who may be toying with their own business idea and, and see you as great inspiration as someone who had an idea and leapt in and just did it.
Do you have, you know, any cautionary tales or advice to share with people who have an idea that they might want to turn into a business in terms of first stages, I mean, we talked a little bit about the steps you had to take in order to kind of jump in and open your doors. But, you know, is there anything that surprised you that you weren't expecting or maybe things you were worried about but ended up not being something that you thought you had to worry about? Or, or is every single case different?
[00:47:48] Speaker B: Well, I think every case is different, but I think like, don't let fear stop you.
Obviously that's the big one. Because even if you don't know the everything, you don't. For me, I want to know a little bit about everything. But you need to surround your, surround yourself with people that might know a lot about one thing. So it's just about learning, getting the right people on your side having that support is huge.
And then just learning the systems. Like for me it's because I am a very creative type. It's like getting the yings to your yang. Right. And getting those people that can kind of balance you and like your ideas and people to bounce ideas off, I think is so important because you can't do it all on your own.
You can for a while, but in the long run you really need to, you really need to lean in on people and, and, and accept help and ask for help. Like which I'm learning to do.
Yeah.
[00:48:43] Speaker A: And some of us, it takes us a while to learn those things. I think that's a human, it's a human thing. And also whatever business idea or creative idea or initiative someone's to start and, and what you've just mentioned, you're, that's a pearl of wisdom and a great reminder for anyone who is inspired or is maybe having a day where their, their inspiration is flagging to get back up when they're ready and to do it. You know, you have been when you started this, if I can use the words a one woman show, you're growing. So you probably can't unless you clone yourself. You know, you will need to, you know, grow your team. But I like what you mentioned about having the people surround you because whether you are a one person business or a lot bigger, we all need experts or our experts or people we can rely on. And not people who only we think alike, but people who think differently than us too. Right. And that you can lean on. And everyone needs someone to do that.
[00:49:45] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:49:46] Speaker A: And at different times for different things. Right.
So thank you for mentioning that and I'd like to thank you now for, I mean, I think we could talk for another hour or two easily. And I would love. I know you're busy with so many things. I'd love later in the year to have you invite you back on to do another episode where we can maybe deep dive into a few of just these many topics that we've just scratched the surface. I think it's a fascinating area.
[00:50:12] Speaker B: I would love that.
[00:50:12] Speaker A: For me, I'm diving into it too. But I'd like to thank you for your time today, for joining and for sharing your story and it's, it is so inspirational and thank you for the awareness raising and all of the energy and, and great vibes you're bringing to this space for people who are sober and for people who are looking to explore and to learn and to have some new layers and options in life. So thank you so so much.
[00:50:41] Speaker B: And thank you so much for having me on the show and being interested in the industry and doing what you do. We appreciate it.
[00:50:48] Speaker A: Well, take care and I look forward to seeing you back soon at Mocktails.
[00:50:51] Speaker B: Yes, for sure. Thank you so much.
[00:50:55] Speaker A: Hey, thanks for tuning in today. I hope that you enjoyed my discussion with Angela Hansen. For those who live or are visiting Vancouver, the Lower Mainland area, and are interested in learning more about the non alcoholic beverage scene space, I really recommend that you go and check out Mocktails in person.
If you'd like to be a virtual visitor, you can always check out Mocktails, Instagram feed or their website. It's a great way to learn about what's going on in their store, the products on offer, and also what's going on in the scene in the city.
Now if you have any family or friends who are interested in this type of conversation, please do share this episode with them. And if you're open to leaving a comment or a rating for my show or any of my episodes, that would be great. Word of mouth is the main way that I share my podcast path, so I really would appreciate your support.
Have a great spring and see you back here sometime soon on the TT1 Explorer podcast. Until then, take care.
